Orange County Atheists

Huntington Beach already voted yes even though several people, including myself, emailed and spoke against the idea. They already had thier minds made up.

It might be a good idea to have colored armbands on to represent the NO voters in the group, as we probabply cannot carry signs. Also I was thinking of having a little social get together after the vote at my house in villa park. Let me know who might be interested in attending.

bruce

You know, Wew really need to try to influence both Clinton and Obama to join together, one being a president and the other the vice president and get the votes the democrats need to rid of this subhuman McCain before this nation falls economically and politically or definitely by way of a third world war. To stop this "In God We Trust" quotation since this disease is starting and growing shows that the Christian force is getting stronger and more stupidly powerful. As far as this quotation, I don't think there is a way to really stop this, it's happening like everything else with this fundamentalist sickness until it dies down or away.

this is a tough one because it has become our nation's motto, at the same time 'under god' was put into the pledge... the real battle will be won when can join up with michael newdow and others, who are taking these issues forward to the supreme court. meantime, however, it's worth fighting these skirmishes in our back yards. i would suggest contacting the ffrf group for advice and support (they file most of the lawsuits on church/state separation in the u.s.), and our political lobbyist, lori lipman brown, both of whom may be able to provide extra firepower for this issue. We could also team up with other atheist/humanist groups around the state to make this a statewide campaign to counter the bakersfield woman's mission.

I was thinking it might be a good idea to wear colors armbands at the villa park meeting next tuesday to show our support for not putting this motion thru. Any thoughts on this? Also I was thinking of offering my house, very close to the city hall, as a gathering place for those after the public speaking section is over with. If you're interested see me after I speak at the meeting.

I think one of the tactics we all agreed on at our meeting last week was that dressing nicely (business casual style) would be effective here - I'm not sure colored armbands would do anything but confuse people.

I am imagining this as less of a "protest" and more of a "presence" - we'll have our supporters there, those who want to talk will talk, and otherwise we'll just be there in numbers. The organizers can't control people who show up, but hopefully the group will be well civil and well spoken. We'll get some good "talking points" up here tomorrow for those who want to talk but don't know exactly all the details.

For those of you wandering here from somewhere that's not my email distribution list, there's a recap of the letter I sent out (with details and history) at http://www.ocatheists.com/archives/000057.shtml.

So far so good!

SO....the idea is to dress nice and advise the city council as atheists we don't appreciate them doing this (with possible arm bands).

I'm sure they will see reason.

THIS JUST IN:
Judge: No problem with "In God We Trust" license plates

A state judge has ruled that it's OK for Indiana to issue license plates that say "In God We Trust," according to The Indianapolis Star.

The decision came after lawyers for the local ACLU branch argued that the Bureau of Motor Vehicles was promoting religion by not charging for these tags. An official with the civil-rights group says it's preparing an appeal.

The Star, like USA TODAY, is owned by Gannett.

We can support a NO vote at the VP meeting by simply supporting that persons that speak with a huge round of applause! There should be a separate meeting area for the atheists before the meeting - might I suggest just outside rockwells restaurant, which is 70 ft away from city hall? meet at 6pm???

This is a tough one, isn't it? I didn't realize "God" and Moses were displayed everywhere, even in the Supreme Court!

Here are some photos:
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/godinthe.htm

Not sure I can leave work early to make it to Villa Park, but I'll try.

I'll definately be there tomorrow. Even if you don't want to talk, please show up to support the group. The more people we have there the more likely people will pay attention to us. This is a really important issue for Atheists, Buddhists (365 million), Hindu's (837 million) and any other non monotheist group.

Also, please *please* email them and the city you live in expressing your feelings. Here's the letter I sent to villa park:

Hello, I would like to let you know that I think displaying "In God We Trust" in the council chambers is a bad idea.

Since you are in government, you represent *everyone* in the city. That includes atheists, humanists, buddhists, and hindus. None of those groups believe in a single higher power. The God referred to by "In God We Trust" clearly references a single god, the god of the bible. It is offensive to anyone who doesn't believe in that single god.

Please vote against this measure. Religion is a personal matter that should be left to the individual. You wouldn't put "In Many Gods We Trust" up, so don't put up "In One God We Trust". If you really want to be patriotic, try "E Plurbius Unum - Out of Many, One", our nation's motto from 1782 until 1956 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pluribus_unum

Thank you,

The email address cityhall@villapark.org doesn't work. Please send letters directly to the individual city council members: breese@villapark.org, jrheins@villapark.org, rfreschi@villapark.org, dpauly@villapark.org, rulmer@villapark.org.

Below is a copy of the email that I sent to each city council member this afternoon.

-------------------

Dear Villa Park City Council Member:

Unfortunately, I am unable to appear at your meeting tomorrow evening, but I respectfully request that this email be read aloud when appropriate.

I am writing to encourage you to vote against the measure to display "In God We Trust" on city property. Although I appreciate the councils' desire to appease community members who believe and trust in a God, I find it offensive and inappropriate to display personal religious beliefs on city property.

As council members, you have a responsibility be guided by laws, both federal and state, that have been passed by your predecessors. You were elected to make decisions for the community based on reason, logic and experience. To separate church and state, especially in the decision-making process, is paramount in your duty as a community leader.

Please do not support a measure that declares to those who enter city property that, as community leaders, you believe (although you may) that an "invisible man in the sky" is who "we" should rely on for guidance when reason, logic, and experience fail. In my opinion, that belief and reliance is embarassing.

In God - "in some mytical being whose existence or non-existence has yet to be proved or disproved by modern scientific evidence - like Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster, nomes, dragons, and monsters."

We Trust - "I don't trust in a God. I trust reason, logic, and experience to guide me."

If you must post the foregoing phrase, I respectfully request that the following be appended immediately after: "Just kidding! We really trust in our ability to reason, use logic, and our combined experience to make decisions that benefit the community."

Very truly yours,

Pamela Mayhew

Villa Park has their meeting agenda up at http://www.villapark.org/Agendas-Minutes/042208/agenda.pdf. Also, they's got further information on their plans at http://www.villapark.org/Agendas-Minutes/042208/16.PDF - feel free to use it as a template for what the council is considering when deciding on what to speak about.

The first problem with this sentence is that it doesn't mean anything. Which God? And who is "we?" And what does it mean to "trust in God?" Since none of this is defined, does it really boil down to "I approve of monotheism?" What is the value of that, since monotheism would appear to incorporate (and, depending on whom you ask, approve of) everything from Mother Teresa to Mohammed Atta (9/11 hijacker)?

And, if city councils are actually proposing to trust in God to do something, shouldn't it be specified what it is? Perhaps they expect Him to appear in a burning bush before every vote and give them guidance. That's fine (of course, it really isn't, but that's another story), but they have to let us know in advance what result they have in mind by displaying this motto.

The question to ask city council members is, "What exactly comes to mind when you think of this motto?" If they can't come up with anything better than "It makes me happy because it confirms my personal religious beliefs" our response should be that that's a private matter that is no business of the government. If they have something more specific in mind, WHAT IS IT?

Mark

Here's the letter I sent:

Dear Villa Park City Council,

I'm concerned about your proposal to display in "God We Trust" in the
council chambers.

If we read the words of the famous founding fathers, it's obvious that
they wanted to keep religion and God out of government.

John Adams, the second President of the United States, signed the
Treaty of Tripoli in 1797 which stated: "As the government of the
United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian
religion..."

Adams, also wrote, "[In] the formation of the American governments...
it will never be pretended that any persons employed in that
service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the
influence of heaven.... These governments were contrived merely by the
use of reason and the senses." ( "A Defense of the Constitutions of
Government of the United States of America", 1788)

Thomas Jefferson wrote about the principle of "a wall of separation
between Church and State", in a letter to the to Danbury Baptists in
1802.

And in 1808 Jefferson wrote: "Religious institutions that use
government power in support of themselves and force their views on
persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil
rights."

Religion, is only mentioned in exclusionary terms in the Constitution.
"God" is never mentioned. Not even once. And for good reason. The
founding fathers saw religious intolerance and persecution in Europe
as well as in the colonies and they wanted to avoid those elements
that were destructive to a democracy.

As James Madison, in 1819, stated: "The civil government ... functions
with complete success ... by the total separation of the Church from
the State."

Bakersfield Councilwoman Jacquie Sullivan and her nonprofit group "In
God We Trust", wants to get the motto on 10,000 municipal buildings
nationwide. She's stated, "It's not about religion but about how
proud I am to be an American."

If this is not about religion, then why invoke God at all?

The founding fathers chose "E Plurbius Unum" ("Out of Many, One") as
the nation's motto, not "In God We Trust."

Please, I urge you to vote NO on the "In God We Trust" resolution.

Thank you,

Hans Curtius

Please meet at Rockwells restaurant next to city hall at 6-6:30. I will have ribbons for everyone voting NO on this motion. Just look for the guy with a blue ribbon roll.

Bruce

While the city will certainly let you speak, remember that you may get asked why someone from Brea or Huntington Beach cares about what happens in Villa Park.

Let the council know in your prepared remarks that you're a concerned citizen of Orange County, and that more than a half-dozen other cities have already passed resolutions similar to Villa Park's), and you're either a) worried that it'll happen in yours or b) hope to stop the same thing that happened in yours.

The effort to add this motto is coming from an outside city too - Bakersfield - and has an effect on everyone living in OC.

Here's a flier I'll print out a bunch of and bring. If you notice any problems, please let me know ASAP:

In God We Trust
Would you find "In Many Gods We Trust" or "In No God We Trust" to be offensive? If the answer is yes, then you now understand why Atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, and any other non-monotheists are offended by this term.

History of the Motto
"E Plurbius Unum" was our nation's motto from 1782 until 1956 (174 years). It means "From Many, One". "In God We Trust" was approved in 1956 (52 years ago) as the new motto. "In these days when imperialistic and materialistic Communism seeks to attack and destroy freedom, it is proper" to "remind all of us of this self-evident truth" that "as long as this country trusts in God, it will prevail." - Charles Edward Bennett, sponsor in the House.

Why It's Wrong
Our great nation and community is made up of people of all colors, lifestyles, and beliefs. That diversity is what makes us great. When government choose one race, lifestyle, or belief as the "correct" one then anyone not in that will be oppressed. Government represents everyone, therefore its laws need to reflect everyone, not just the majority.
Orange County Atheists - http://ocatheists.com

Looks great!